Priorties??

[Andrew Hardscape]

I'm seeing pics of new trucks.

Ok. Nice.

But how bout these websites??


A nice website is an INVESTMENT....not an EXPENSE.

Lets get those websites launched.

[MuirView Design]

How much did Jeff pay you to post this? LOL I agree with you Andrew. I have been doing a lot of research on SEO and taking online classes to learn Adobe Dreamweaver and Flash. I'm pretty good with XHTML and I want to attempt to build my own site. (with the help of my Dad who is a programmer and web designer) I think getting the site built is half the battle. SEO is where the money is made. I would love some tips on optimizing that people have found actually work for them. I hear a bunch a zip codes help, but other people tell me they aren't always effective. I've managed to get my current site to come up on the first page if you google search in my hometown (Morgantown, PA or 19543) under landscape design, landscape company, landscape contractor. Ironically, if you search hardscape under my hometown, you come up with this site as the first and second result and find my posts. I want to get these results in my surrounding area as well. Any suggestions for when I build my new site????? Or, is that all top secret?


R.I.P. Phone Book

[MuirView Design]

Also, I wanted to ask if you think making a site too flashy could work against you? I think the average consumer may look at a site that is overdone and think you must be very expensive.......or they may not. What do you think?

[sancraig]

Also, I wanted to ask if you think making a site too flashy could work against you? I think the average consumer may look at a site that is overdone and think you must be very expensive.......or they may not. What do you think?



I would think that would depend on your customer Base. I have a very old and not pretty truck and sometimes that works in my favor and other times it works totally against me. I see the web being the same way my site is very simple and I get three new visitors a day every month. I made sure I submitted it to every search engine I could, I used some meta data. I come up 4th in google for "hardscape st louis" the other three are not even in st louis and for local google local search I come up first. I also have local listings in all the search engines.

[Andrew Hardscape]

I believe the success of web marketing varies from market to market. I believe in the Metro areas, where you have higher income level people, which are typically 100% computer literate - a website is a must.

Venture into the rural areas where people still have phone books inside their homes - then you may not have much success with a website, other than using it as a portfolio.

Muirview - I am always williing to share SEO experiences, thoughts, etc. But I try to limit it to discussing over the telephone. Which I am more than happy to do. The tricky part is tracking me down when I have time to chat!

[Mbella]

I believe the success of web marketing varies from market to market. I believe in the Metro areas, where you have higher income level people, which are typically 100% computer literate - a website is a must.

Venture into the rural areas where people still have phone books inside their homes - then you may not have much success with a website, other than using it as a portfolio.

Muirview - I am always williing to share SEO experiences, thoughts, etc. But I try to limit it to discussing over the telephone. Which I am more than happy to do. The tricky part is tracking me down when I have time to chat!

Keep the phone next to you while you are online.:)

This whole website thing is an area in which I am definitely lacking. Currently, I am working with Jeff to upgrade my website, which some would consider nice if they were in kindergarten and comparing to other kindergartener's websites.

I am looking at the website as a way to give a prospective client a quick introduction to me and my company and not much more. For example: somebody calls and asks, "Do you do patios with built in grills?" I respond,"Absolutely, check out my website." However, I am not counting on the site to generate higher quality leads.

Last year, 90% of our residential install work was from referrals. Those referrals chose us without a decent website. A decent website might have generated more leads, but I'll take referrals over all other types of leads any day.

Bottom line, I need to improve my website to present a more accurate representation of what we are all about. Honestly though, I am not really looking to it for a marked increase in sales, or quality of sales.

[mckeeland]

we just signed our 2nd job this year from our web. in my opinion, and that of many others it is well worth having your site optimized to attract leads. it is the easiest advertising you can do. i know the web is the first place i go when i am looking to buy and definitely when i am ready to buy.

[Andrew Hardscape]

I used to have the same thoughts as Bella.

Till I found out that a well done site WILL land kick ass jobs.

It's your opportunity to allow Frank Homeowner to shop at one in the morning while you are sound asleep.

[Mbella]

I used to have the same thoughts as Bella.

Till I found out that a well done site WILL land kick ass jobs.

It's your opportunity to allow Frank Homeowner to shop at one in the morning while you are sound asleep.


I'm not disagreeing with you about the website. However, I stated almost all of my hardscape work is from referrals, which beat all other forms of advertising, in my opinion.

What percentage of your jobs sold, originated through your website?

[Andrew Hardscape]

..... almost all of my hardscape work is from referrals, which beat all other forms of advertising, in my opinion.

What percentage of your jobs sold, originated through your website?



It is my opinion that if one is a good contractor and they do as promised - then good work and referrals go hand in hand.

You can ask any established contractor of any type of service where their work derives, and the answer(s) will always be "referals". I do not count referals as a form of marketing. It's your good work and your good word that is working for you.

Even McDonalds advertises!!


To answer Bella's question -
Last year 85% of our work came from the web. My brother-in-law is finishing up enhancements to our SEO, as well as adding a few pictures of outdoor lighting and in a few days the enhancements will be made live, so hopefully we can achieve the 85% again this year. And in a few weeks I have about 20 to 30 more pictures we're adding, I just need time to go through the pictures and get them in order! Propsective clients LOVE pictures.

As Jay said, once your site is finished, the only expense is your annual hosting fee, as well as annual maintenance (adding/removing pics, etc).

[Mbella]

Andrew, are you saying that 85% of your work came directly from folks finding your website?

[Andrew Hardscape]

Yep. Last year was the 1st year I pulled our expensive 4 color ad out of the phone book. With the exception of one news paper that I ran 4 ads in and got no sales - the only marketing we did was the internet and door hangers.



Now back to referals:

Say Frank finds you on the net. You sell the job. Frank is thrilled. 3 of Frank's neighbors / friends end up using you to do their projects. Do you count those 3 jobs as deriving from referals or from the source of the marketing that lured the original buyer in????

If it was not for the website, we may have not sold a job to Frank, thus we would not have gotten hooked up with his conrads.

So in my mindset - a total of 4 jobs originated from the net. Not 1 job from the net and 3 jobs from Frank's referal.

[Mbella]

Andrew, now I understand. That's why I asked "directly."

[Andrew Hardscape]

85% of all new contacts (as in people completely unfamiliar with my company) that come in derive from the website.


Web advertising has arrived. 18 years ago I would have never imagined that a computer would be generating our sales.

[Mbella]

Call it what you want, but those referrals that were a result of you working next door, or for somebody's bud, didn't come directly from the net, rather they are referrals.

Again, I'm not arguing against the value of a website. The person that finds you on the web, chooses you based on what is on your website. Their bud, or neighbor, chooses you based on what you did for their bud, or neighbor.

The same can happen whether, or not a customer gets your name from Service Magic, Yellowbook, internet, job sign, etc. and I consider them referrals, which you already stated you do not consider a form of marketing.

[Andrew Hardscape]

Mike - you do not have to agree with me!

Chris said we"re supposed to "share" on this board!!! :) :) I am sharing!

I am sharing my experiences! I am sorry of you have an issue withh my 85%! 2007 was our best year EVER.....and if it wasn't for the website we would probably be toast, considering so many other local guys are no longer in existance.

Our success with web advertising are Not Theories!

If you wanna market you business on a reststop bathroom wall and if it works - then SUPER!!!

If you want a way to generate sales leads - then a nice website is somthing I highly recommend. It works for me!

When Late July rolls around and folks are saying that leads are trickeling in.....I'm gonna say "hey guy with the nice new truck....tell us about your marketing campaign..."

[Mbella]

Don't get your panties in a bunch Andy.:drama:

We are all about sharing and I thank you for sharing so much on this board.:hug:

I just thought it was misleading to say that 85% of your business came from your website. Thank you for sharing and clarifying.:yield:

[kootoomootoo]

I got busted doing some things google didnt like but for 2 years I had my site listed number one anywhere I wanted. Started to be a game in the end.

Have 2 sites now. Phasing banned one out. Today was a classic example and Mike said it earlier....lady called up...got my number from supplier...here is my website.....check it out.

Just finished a nice install ...I asked where they got my details...from the web. I can also check who goes to site, where from. keyword, whether they opened an email I sent in some cases etc.

[Andrew Hardscape]

About the only thing that Google does not like is when you hide words.

For example - if you have a white background and then have text in WHITE font (so it's invisible), and if they catch it - they'll usually first issue a warning. And then ban you.

yep! I reported a local contractor about 18 months ago for that!

But one thing that is legal is something called "hidden DIV". My site has hidden div in it's flash intro. Many designers are not familiar with Hidden Div, and don't know much about it.

About 8 years ago we launched our site. I knew nothing about SEO. Never heard of it. Then, on another message board, a fellow participant whom founded an internet business pertaining to the green industry - started offering advice on the importance of internet advertising.

My thoughts to his advice was always "blah blah blah, I don't care if people find us on the web, I just want people that call us to be able to see what we're about after they call...." Or, "I just want people that are aware of our existance to go to our site"

Then, in 2007, after many many months of thought, I decided to stop advertising on the local Verizon yellow pages. We have always had EXCELLENT results from our dollar bill, 4-color ad. But it cost around $6500 / year. So I made up my mind to stop running the ad so that I can save money. Which this then prompted me to talk to the gentleman from the other board on the phone for tips on SEO for my site. He gave me all kinds of pointers. I implemented probably only 40% of what he advised. And from there we had GREAT success.

I'm just sharing my experiences. I could literally go on and on with my thoughts and expriences. I love this subject. I love learning new stuff.

The limited info I shared is now etched in the archives of this message board. This will be my final post regarding SEO. Via telephone, and as my time allows, I am willing to help most others with their SEO. That is, most others that do not work in the same areas we work!

[mpickel]

I have to thank Andrew about SEO info. Our site is not even close to where I would like it to be, but I signed my first job yesterday from a customer that did a simple internet search. I think my site is basic and not enough pictures, but this customer liked what they saw and I think they were sold before even meeting.

[Mbella]

I have to thank Andrew about SEO info. Our site is not even close to where I would like it to be, but I signed my first job yesterday from a customer that did a simple internet search. I think my site is basic and not enough pictures, but this customer liked what they saw and I think they were sold before even meeting.


Are you telling us that Andrew provided you with SEO information that enhanced your site so that this customer found you as a result? If so, what did he tell you to do?

[mpickel]

Andrew didn't really give me any specific advise, I didn't think much of SEO until I read all his rants. I basically viewed my website as a payment portal and general info that people could refer to from my business card, and not as a marketing tool. So I am really just thinking him for making me think about my website in a new light.

I looked into SEO and got a few hints that could enhance my search rankings, so I incorporated a few to see what the results were. I have noticed an increase in my traffic since then. Basic stuff...like adding the cities I service and using keywords. I use Deep Log Analyzer and it tracks a lot of useful information. It still has a long way to go, but its something.