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View Full Version : Best way to apply cultured stone



zedosix
02-25-2010, 10:36 PM
To all you natural stone, veneer guys I have a project that I will be starting next week at my cottage. I am installing cultured stone behind the wood stove but don't want to use mortar. My supplier tells me pl premium would do the job but I am skeptical about using it. So just wondered if anyone here has had sucess using anything but thinset behind their cultured stone projects.

Pro Cut
02-25-2010, 10:43 PM
I used PL400 for my front receptionist counter. Worked great! I will post pictures in the am.

zedosix
02-25-2010, 10:52 PM
I used PL400 for my front receptionist counter. Worked great! I will post pictures in the am.

Thanks.

This is how I want to do it

1. Install 1" furring strips to the existing plywood wall or steel spacers that I have already on site.
2. Install 1/2" plywood over the spacers
3. Cement board over the plywood
4. Pl the stone to cement board.

Will this work?

Pro Cut
02-25-2010, 10:55 PM
In all honesty, all I did was paint a piece of 3/4" OSB black and stuck the stone right too it. Let it cure for a few days and you will have a heck of a time trying to get it off without breaking the stone. The reason I painted it black is because I used a ledge stone with tight fitting joints. You and I both know there are going to be spots where you would be able to see the osb, thus if its black you can't tell.

Pro Cut
02-25-2010, 11:00 PM
I want to clarify that I am recommending the correct PL. The PL I used I believe is a general purpose construction adhesive, light brown in color. I initially used (I believe?) PL 300, which is a blue, foam board adhesive. It didn't have near the 'stick' as 400, if you will.

zedosix
02-25-2010, 11:01 PM
I want to clarify that I am recommending the correct PL. The PL I used I believe is a general purpose construction adhesive, light brown in color. I initially used (I believe?) PL 300, which is a blue, foam board adhesive. It didn't have near the 'stick' as 400, if you will.

I will probably use Gator glue for the project. I like how fast it sets.

custom patios
02-26-2010, 12:13 AM
just curious... why adhesive and not mortar?

zedosix
02-26-2010, 07:25 AM
just curious... why adhesive and not mortar?

I only just insulated the cottage this winter so had to shut all water supply end of november, long story but I'm reno'ing it now and will complete the septic and waterhook up come spring time.

Pro Cut
02-26-2010, 02:53 PM
Pics of our counter. What do you think for my first time using cultured stone?

chardscapes
02-26-2010, 03:18 PM
Looks awesome. How did you apply it. I am bidding a wet bar and I am going to try to talk customer into stone. Any more pics ?

Pro Cut
02-26-2010, 03:44 PM
Looks awesome. How did you apply it. I am bidding a wet bar and I am going to try to talk customer into stone. Any more pics ?

Thanks, that's the only picture I have. I said above how I installed, but all I used was PL400 stuck straight on to a piece of OSB painted black. For interior applications it works just fine. It could maybe work outside, but I would probably stick with mortar in that application. Its framed with 2x6's anchored into the concrete floor.

Pro Cut
02-26-2010, 03:54 PM
I took some more. One is of the back panel. Hope they are of use.

zedosix
02-26-2010, 06:17 PM
Looks great, hope I can do the same! Nice office btw.

P.L.
02-26-2010, 09:47 PM
I think the PL will work great. You can also use a good tile adheasive.

MuirView Design
02-27-2010, 08:16 AM
If you are going hardi backer board with no scratch coat, then you should use thinset mortar.

The cheapest route would be to use 30# felt under metal lathe and Type N mortar at a 2 part sand to 1 part mortar ratio. Scratch coat on the lathe prior to sticking. Keep a spray bottle to wet the backs of the stones and scratch coat before laying. Wiggle the stones into place as opposed to pounding them for better suction.

As far as water goes, we had a similar case and I was able to get by for a full day using only 3 gallons of water, which will mix a full bag of cement. (depends how fast you are) Only issue you'll have is cleanup. I brought a few gallon jugs to the job each day and managed to make it work while the water was shut off.

I never used PL with veneer, but I've heard of guys doing it (some guys use liquid nails also) Hopefully it works out.

What type of veneer is it?

Meanix
02-27-2010, 02:34 PM
Looks nice except for the support hanging out past the top? is it the pic or is that what i am seeing?

Pro Cut
02-27-2010, 04:17 PM
Its just the pic. Its tucked under there three inches from each corner I believe.

cgland
02-27-2010, 07:42 PM
Nicely done! i thinnk a better color would have been grey or tan considering the color stone you have.

zedosix
02-27-2010, 11:04 PM
If you are going hardi backer board with no scratch coat, then you should use thinset mortar.

The cheapest route would be to use 30# felt under metal lathe and Type N mortar at a 2 part sand to 1 part mortar ratio. Scratch coat on the lathe prior to sticking. Keep a spray bottle to wet the backs of the stones and scratch coat before laying. Wiggle the stones into place as opposed to pounding them for better suction.

As far as water goes, we had a similar case and I was able to get by for a full day using only 3 gallons of water, which will mix a full bag of cement. (depends how fast you are) Only issue you'll have is cleanup. I brought a few gallon jugs to the job each day and managed to make it work while the water was shut off.

I never used PL with veneer, but I've heard of guys doing it (some guys use liquid nails also) Hopefully it works out.

What type of veneer is it?

There could be some movement to the surround Adam, the cottage is on a footing but not below frost so I'm a bit skeptical about the mortar route. Although I imagine it would not show anyway even if the walls moved slightly during the spring. I was thinking Pl or the like would hold up to movement better than the mortar. Its kinda new ground for me. I could bring water to the cottage since its fairly close to home anyway.

CMSStoneworks
03-08-2010, 09:17 AM
Bringing this back for a second....Was thinking of taking some extra ledgestone and doing a little area behind my mothers pellet stove. The house is very old, Plaster and lathe with some kinda paneling over it. Now I would not trust just the paneling to hold the weight of the cultured stone, and I dont think I could successfully anchor Concrete Board to the underlying plaster and lathe either.....sooooo. what do you guys see as an option? I was thinking of framing out a little mantle type thing with 2x4's....put a little 2x6 piece of bluestone up top as a mantle, and cultured stone below with concrete board fastened to the framing. The framing would be anchored into the plaster and lathe with some type of suitable anchor.

then instead of making a mess, use some PL and glue it up. whatcha guys think?

zedosix
03-08-2010, 10:47 AM
Bringing this back for a second....Was thinking of taking some extra ledgestone and doing a little area behind my mothers pellet stove. The house is very old, Plaster and lathe with some kinda paneling over it. Now I would not trust just the paneling to hold the weight of the cultured stone, and I dont think I could successfully anchor Concrete Board to the underlying plaster and lathe either.....sooooo. what do you guys see as an option? I was thinking of framing out a little mantle type thing with 2x4's....put a little 2x6 piece of bluestone up top as a mantle, and cultured stone below with concrete board fastened to the framing. The framing would be anchored into the plaster and lathe with some type of suitable anchor.

then instead of making a mess, use some PL and glue it up. whatcha guys think?

I think this ideas should work but why not include fastening a sheet of plywood first then frame it off, then your concrete board or whatever. Personally I would put plywood over top your framing, the pl will stick fine. Just make sure to paint the background the same color as the cultured stone.

I have mine finished off yesterday, today stove gets painted then re-installed. Note to self, never use "reno-stone" again.

danf
03-08-2010, 08:16 PM
I don't think I'd use PL behind any wood burning stove, pellet or otherwise, unless it was several FEET away. I'd be too worried about the radiant heat from the stove either causing the glue to soften and pop off, or worse yet cause it to melt and off-gas nasty stuff. It would be a long shot of it happening, but if no one is around, once PL is exposed to intense radiant heat it very well could catch fire....

Do it the safe way and use concrete board and mortar.

zedosix
03-08-2010, 09:31 PM
I spoke with Reno stone and other suppliers, no-one mentioned anything about gases, or radiant heat softening the pl. I used gator glue for the first 2/3 of the project then ran out of it, switched to pl after.

Here is a before view with the beautiful tin surround and almost finished pics, just need to lift that heavy sob back in place. I'll keep an eye on the heat but if its anything like what i have at home it will take a very intense fire to make the stones hot to the touch. We'll see.

cgland
03-08-2010, 10:16 PM
I like your little stone tread. Job looks great

zedosix
03-08-2010, 10:26 PM
Thanks Chris, I've been slaving ( more like enjoying myself) away since last november, fixing up an old cottage, just love it. Tomorrow I will start the pine floor and next week all gets sanded and a couple coats of finish.

musclecarboy
03-08-2010, 11:44 PM
Looks awesome Andy, I'm hoping to purchase a cottage this fall as an investment. I'm a landscaper again, the food deal fell thru.

zedosix
03-09-2010, 07:31 AM
Looks awesome Andy, I'm hoping to purchase a cottage this fall as an investment. I'm a landscaper again, the food deal fell thru.

Good to have you back! It just wasn't meant to be Tom, when its time everything falls into place.

Pro Cut
03-09-2010, 09:12 AM
Zedo, is that the modular type of stone where they are all the same size?

zedosix
03-09-2010, 04:02 PM
Zedo, is that the modular type of stone where they are all the same size?

Same thickness roughly 5" by variable lengths up to 20"

paponte
03-09-2010, 06:14 PM
Looks good! The stone saddle tells you its a hardscaper house for sure.

zedosix
03-10-2010, 10:58 PM
Finished product, its my first attempt so be easy. I'll make a fire tomorrow, hope the brick stays glued to the wall!

CaptainsLS
03-10-2010, 11:31 PM
Looks great Zedo. I hope you are able to introduce more masonry into your projects. My only criticism would be the corner pieces on the left bottom side (did you start laying there?) they aren’t ‘toothed’ in like all the other corners, but everything else looks perfect.

zedosix
03-11-2010, 07:11 AM
I did start on the left side, the floor is unlevel and it was the lowest point so I had to start there. I'm not sure what you see by that picture, the corners are all prefabed and I don't think I did anything out of the ordinary.
What I think you mean is .... each corner piece has a tapered end and maybe I installed some that should of been placed on the right side? Is that what you are referring too? Thanks for the comments, I want to be able to include this type of work in my future projects.

custom patios
03-11-2010, 07:41 PM
wow those white walls gotta go. i was looking at the jaggedy vertical line the corners make on the right side. did you like working with the veneer?

paponte
03-11-2010, 08:40 PM
Job looks good overall, but not sure if it's just the picture... the right side looks like it could be a bit more plumb?

MuirView Design
03-11-2010, 09:07 PM
Nice Zedo! I like the stone choice a lot. It's hard to imagine that corner without the stone on it! I'm sure you'll enjoy that for years to come and always look back and remember it as the spot that took your veneer virginity!

zedosix
03-11-2010, 09:18 PM
wow those white walls gotta go. i was looking at the jaggedy vertical line the corners make on the right side. did you like working with the veneer?

You're looking at primer my friend, the painting is on schedule for monday and tuesday. I didn't like working with this one since it was not level at all, kinda reminded me of working with celtic wall where ya gotta smooth out the sides and the top. Overall I'm happy with it. The lines are about as straight as I could get them. After 8 feet high I was only off by 1/8th inch. But that could of been the ceiling, after all this place was built in 1930ish

zedosix
03-11-2010, 09:20 PM
Nice Zedo! I like the stone choice a lot. It's hard to imagine that corner without the stone on it! I'm sure you'll enjoy that for years to come and always look back and remember it as the spot that took your veneer virginity!

Here is a before shot, some real nice 18 guage tin. Pretty eh?

Holey - Field of Dreams
04-01-2010, 11:54 AM
Next time any of you want a stone veneer, try this company. I ordered and installed their drystack like Zedo did with Construction adhesive and it went up quick. Best stone veneer I've found thus far. The stuff we get down here doesn't compare.

http://www.bouldercreekstone.com/