Vehicular application? Really!?!?

[CaptainsLS]

Has anyone had experience with this product. We will be using this in the spring for a small driveway. Its a neat system. I know it defies every thing ICPI seems to praise, but I'm looking forward to working with it. The liquid grout bonding agent seems to be the backbone of the system, and as far as I'm concerned it could be used on other applications (brick, bluestone, cobble). Check out the fan pattern pieces.

http://www.cobblesystems.com/

[mckeeland]

thats so funny, i saw that on tv and have been trying to find it on the web. i am not a fan of cobble stone drives, but its not what i like its the customer and some people really love that look. i think the system was pretty cool and simple to do. they say you can use poly sand instead of the grout if you want.

[CaptainsLS]

That would be a ridicules amount of polysand. The grout has very similar characteristics to polysand just spread in liquid form. The grout comes in a 2-part epoxy container concentrated and then you mix with sand.

[MuirView Design]

I'm confused...looks like in the install section, they are showing it laid right on modified and tamped? What good does that do? Do you do a layer of bedding sand? Personally, i don't see how it will hold up to years of vehicular traffic.

[CaptainsLS]

No bedding sand. Material over compacted base. Grout with bonding agent squeegee into joints. Like I said it goes against all ICPI standards.

[bigvictu]

I saw it on rock solid i love the look of it. i think it would look great on older style homes.

[cgland]

Seems it would be very suseptible (sp) to horizontal migration. Plus your base would have to be super perfect.

Chris

[MuirView Design]

No bedding sand. Material over compacted base. Grout with bonding agent squeegee into joints. Like I said it goes against all ICPI standards.


Seems like running a tamper on top without sand would cause them to move and shift.


On second thought... I just foung the Rock Solid link of them and a contractor installing this system. Seems they used concrete sand for a bedding http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/dp_stone/article/0,2037,DIY_13792_3839653,00.html

[JZap]

I saw that rock solid episode too. I thought they used reclaimed brick? I was thinking that the application was easy, but why is no one is using it? Who knows, maybe they edited a lot of headaches that episode? It definately has some worries about durability. They should put it to the test on Mythbusters.

[SzotAllied]

It sounds like the grout is epoxy base. I would imagine it sets up very hard. I guess that's what prevents lateral shifting. They also say not to use poly sand in vehicular app.

[JZap]

It sounds like the grout is epoxy base. I would imagine it sets up very hard. I guess that's what prevents lateral shifting. They also say not to use poly sand in vehicular app.

Really? Why is that? We might be doing some warranty work...

[SzotAllied]

"They" being the manufacturer of the paver system in question...sorry.

[cgland]

I just saw this product being installed on "Blog Cabin" What a joke! They raked out some stone (no checks for pitch or undulations), threw down some sand and screeded w/ a board.....by eye! (The guy says " Just knock off the high spots") Then they just laid the "system" on the sand. It looked really crappy. This is what gets me about the industry!..............Homeowners watch this garbage and think that laying pavers is a snap and can be done by anyone! GGGRRRR! Then when you toss them a number they have a heart attack. This is why soooo many projects fail! Lack of professionalism, knowledge and pride is the thorn in our industry's side right now. It really get's to me sometimes! Why can't HGTV fall into the ocean! Sorry for the rant!

Chris

[SzotAllied]

Was this HGTV's install crew, or the paver manufacturers installers?

[mckeeland]

my favorite part is they will show the homeowner and the retard host do the whole job in like 3 hours too!

[Meanix]

How about when there in fla and don't say they don't have to worry about freeze/thaw. Most ho wouldn't pick up on that.

[cgland]

I believe it was the HGTV guys along w/ the rep from Cobblesystems

Chris

[STLPONDS]

I believe it was the HGTV guys along w/ the rep from Cobblesystems

Chris

That's the next project in addtion to Prohardscaper. A TRUE real world hardscape cable program. Hopefully HGTV and friends would close up shop.

[CaptainsLS]

I think "this old house" is as close as you can get. They seem like they don’t skimp on the projects. Plus they are here in MA as well as my competition, "Rock Solid". Try biding against those guys LOL

[plova]

I know this post is old but thought I'd add some details after installing this system. I installed this system myself with the help of a friend of mine who had 22+ years of experience in concrete flatwork, pavers, etc. The application was for the drive apron in front of the garage, just over 900 sf. Now to tell you the good and the bad that we experienced.
It goes without saying that the base is everything. We used 1/4" minus for the setting base for the system. We built this up on top of a 12" base of 3/4" minus on native soil that had been compacted over 18 months. we had to build up 6-8" so at 4" lifts we compacted very well. To prevent lateral movement we had th garage floor on on side and poured a 6" thick curb on 6" high x 12" wide footing (monolithic pour with 2 #4 rebar). The end abutting the house will have the same curb with the 4 end will abutt the concrete drive.
We strung lines every 4' across the width of the apron to set grade which was 1 1/2" below the string and then screeted between, filled and compacted to achive the desired grade. We had figured in a slope between the garage floor and opposing curb even though a slope isn't necessarily needed.
After gettinga good base laying of the mats can be very simply. The only problem we had was that the distributor was to be there when we started setting the system and was a no show. We were using the fan pattern and with no instructionscould not figure out how to set the mats to hide the seem the ends were producing. We tried 1/2 and 1/4 brick set but the mats are not designed to fit together this way. Only after getting the entire apron set and a week later when the distributor came out did he explain that you need to cut the small 1/3 sized cobble off at the end of each mat that allows the ends to interlock. Would have been nice to know about this in the beginning before having to retrofit 170+ mats. You then run a plate compactor over the laid mats to settle the stone in place. They did have a tendency to turn a bit and only 2 or 3 cracked from compacting.
For someone looking for this look it is a fairly good system. The biggest problem we had was with the distributor. He has measured up and ordered what we thought was needed for the fan mats with a rectangular border. He did a directly shipment from the factory to the job site and was going to have a forklift on site to unload. The shipment showed up 3 days early with no notice and I had to get 3 other guys to hand unload from the flatbed. What made matters worse was that the shipment was COD for the delivery charges and I ended up paying the carrier since the distributor did not make it out. The rectangular mats we were to use fo the border never made it out to the job site so the distributor told us to go ahead and just lay the whole apron with the fan pattern as he had ordered "more than enough". Of course he did not have enough, we were about 5 mats short and after waiting and being promised that he would bring out what we needed I found out today that he has nothing more in stock. Not only was I short the 5 mats but also the 3/4" mats needed for the front entry stoop and small patio. So far I have not been able to find this product anywhere on the west coast. I would probably use this product again only if there was reliable supplier.
The factory has been fairly helpful in trying to help with a solution but if there is no product in our region the only thing they can do is to ship from Florida which is very expensive. If you attempt to sue this product make sure that your regions distributor is reliable and stocks the product or order more than what you need from the factory.

[STLPONDS]

I assume you haven't grouted the joints yet? Give us some insight when you do this please.

[cgland]

Do you have any pics of either the installation or the finished product?