Hardscape niche market

[CaptainsLS]

Does anyone have a "trademark" or unique sell with Hardscaping? This year I noticed a huge demand for fire pits. I'm not a huge fan of them, as they seem like a liability. There must be more ideas out there. I have something in mind, but was wondering if anyone else does something specific?

[Mbella]

Does anyone have a "trademark" or unique sell with Hardscaping? This year I noticed a huge demand for fire pits. I'm not a huge fan of them, as they seem like a liability. There must be more ideas out there. I have something in mind, but was wondering if anyone else does something specific?


Captain, I can't say we have a 'trademark." I can't think of one that would make a difference with regard to sales. I guess our "trademark" would be that we treat people fairly and produce high quality work.

[CaptainsLS]

No, I don’t mean like that. Not so much "what separates you from another contractor" but more design ideas. EX/ outdoor kitchens have been around in Europe for years before they were seen in the US. When they first become popular in the US, someone had the upper hand on that market. I posted a thread on LS about making hot tubs out of natural stone, it was way to difficult and I don’t have knowledge about hot tubs to take that venture. I'm just looking for the next "outdoor kitchen" idea.

[gary1328]

Professionalism, Certifications, Image, and Knowledgeability(probably not a word)

Most important-----CUSTOMER SERVICE----

[CaptainsLS]

Really? No ideas? Bump.....

[GreenMonster]

I posted a thread on LS about making hot tubs out of natural stone, it was way to difficult and I don’t have knowledge about hot tubs to take that venture.

I still think that's an awesome idea. I haven't given up on it yet for my next house.

[CaptainsLS]

If you try this, I want to see it. I gave up.

[CaptainsLS]

For those of you how don't know what we are talking about, check this. Granite.

[GreenMonster]

For those of you how don't know what we are talking about, check this. Granite.

Captain, do you have the web address where you found those?

[CaptainsLS]

http://www.greenthumbarts.com/customhottubs.html

I think I would rather make it square. I'm tempted to call the guy....

[GreenMonster]

Thanks. I think when the time comes, I'll definately call the guy.


I'm mostly curious how they make the thing watertight. I don't want to over simplify it, but it otherwise seems relatively simple.

[CaptainsLS]

another one from a different builder....

.

[mrusk]

^^^^ Looks more like a gunite spa to me.

[CaptainsLS]

Give me a break! No one does anything other than stack legos or lay squares next to each other? I have one more idea, but someone must have another thought......

[zedosix]

Give me a break! No one does anything other than stack legos or lay squares next to each other? I have one more idea, but someone must have another thought......


Haven't done many of these, but was thinking about including a brochure in my estimate presentation.

[CaptainsLS]

Man, is that blue jay all different pieces? It almost looks painted on. How was that done? I’m aware that you can order different logos, and such from some of the manufactures, but is that custom?

[tthomass]

What does just that bird cost?

[cgland]

Zedo - What was your method to mark out the exact diameter of the circle. I have a 20' medallion we are installing in the Spring and would like to know your secret.

Chris

[cgland]

www.paverartllc.com (http://www.paverartllc.com)

[zedosix]

Man, is that blue jay all different pieces? It almost looks painted on. How was that done? I’m aware that you can order different logos, and such from some of the manufactures, but is that custom?

http://www.interlockingimages.com/

It was something the customer wanted done, worked out with the owner of this co. and I did the install. I do believe it is part of his inventory. Each and every piece is cut to exact size, there is no paint involved, it is a dye which means it lasts as long as the brick. Couple of my neighbours have had them in their driveways for around 10 yrs or so and they still look great.

[zedosix]

Zedo - What was your method to mark out the exact diameter of the circle. I have a 20' medallion we are installing in the Spring and would like to know your secret.

Chris


Once the measurements are known its as simple as hammering a nail at centre, pulling a piece of string, one that doesn't stretch too much!. Mark with carpenters pencil and cut away. No secrets really, nothing any of the guys here couldn't do. On a side note, when I did the work at my bud's place with the ford gt, I could of had a custom logo made for him, would of taken 3 to 4 weeks to have it made, there is room for new designs and the owner is willing to build them.

[zedosix]

What does just that bird cost?

Not sure, the homeowner paid for them and I did the install. I believe it is in the 400 dollar range.

[cgland]

Once the measurements are known its as simple as hammering a nail at centre, pulling a piece of string, one that doesn't stretch too much!. Mark with carpenters pencil and cut away. No secrets really, nothing any of the guys here couldn't do. On a side note, when I did the work at my bud's place with the ford gt, I could of had a custom logo made for him, would of taken 3 to 4 weeks to have it made, there is room for new designs and the owner is willing to build them.
How do you go about getting the exact measurement? lay the circle out ahead of time?

Chris

[CaptainsLS]

All right, brace yourself.

No Jehovah witness, no bikes, no motorcycles, no trick o' treaters, no cripples, no high heals, and the reason it was done, no deer. I almost fell off my chair.

[cgland]

Plenty of liability insurance!

[Colonial]

HOLY^ CRAP!!! dont forget no small children or pets!!

[JZap]

I personally think permeable pavers are going to be the next "big" thing. But this is assuming the manufacturer's will be putting out new products or systems in the near future. If they could make a permeable paver without peagravel shooting everywhere with a different paver mold or smaller gaps. But from the construction side of the industry, I find more and more of our customers wishing they could put in more pavers, but are at the limit for impervious surface for their property.
Another product out there are preformed firecircles where you set the base, and veneer the facade. The kit comes with a flagstone cap. Although this is not unique, it's much more affordable than a typical fire circle and can match pool tile if desired. It opens up another market of customer for this service. To be able to make outdoor kitchens less expensive to make (without sacrificing quality) would also allow the market to re-open for more middle-class homes.

[CaptainsLS]

Those aren't permeable pavers my friend. Those are jumbo cobblestones set in mortar on end, with some serious gaps. The intent is to not allow deer into the property that eat the landscaping. I just cant imagine sitting in that 3rd story window, laughing as horrified pedestrians snap their ankle in that thing. It's like a human mouse trap.

[Mbella]

We did a job two years ago that had something similar. The damn driveway was so long, nobody was ever going to walk from the street to the house. It was fine for cars to cross, no big deal.

[GroundScapes]

Once the measurements are known its as simple as hammering a nail at centre, pulling a piece of string, one that doesn't stretch too much!. Mark with carpenters pencil and cut away. No secrets really, nothing any of the guys here couldn't do. On a side note, when I did the work at my bud's place with the ford gt, I could of had a custom logo made for him, would of taken 3 to 4 weeks to have it made, there is room for new designs and the owner is willing to build them.

So if, well lets say Techo says that there Rotondo Circle Kit is a diameter of 7' 11", you trust them to come out to that and just start cutting and it comes out right?

[emblock]

If you haven't seen them, check out Fire Rock fireplaces. www.firerock.us Modular fireplaces, very easy install, UL listed. Only about 16 pieces. You can do wood or stub out for gas. Unlike a free hand fireplace, these are engineered to roll the heat out and pull the smoke up. Not cheesy looking like some I have seen and you can veneer with whatever you want. Most important, high profit margins.

[cgland]

That looks awesome. I'm dying to do one of those this year.

[JZap]

Those aren't permeable pavers my friend. Those are jumbo cobblestones set in mortar on end, with some serious gaps. The intent is to not allow deer into the property that eat the landscaping. I just cant imagine sitting in that 3rd story window, laughing as horrified pedestrians snap their ankle in that thing. It's like a human mouse trap.

Thanks, I'm aware. I think that pic looks more like a medievil torturing device than permeable pavers

[CaptainsLS]

I didn't realize you were answering the original question John, and yes, you are absolutely right that permeable pavers will soon be in high demand. Any other fresh ideas on this topic?

[patpls]

Hey Hardscapers, It is with a heavy heart that I let you know that I feel permeable pavers have met their match before really making inroads on the commercial front. Has anyone seen "no fines concrete"? It is basically a permeable concrete, poured in place , as strong as a perm.paver roadway and for obvious reasons much cheaper than permeable pavers should be installed for. I was pretty excited by the allure of perm paver applications but have been brought back to the sad reality that cost will dictate the market, as always, and leave perm pavers to small (<3000ft/2) applications. Believe me when I say I hope to install 1000s of ft/2 of perm pavers but I'm not banking on it. :violin:

[cgland]

See, the inherant problems with concrete will still exist, cracking, expansion joints, etc. So I would still consider it an inferior product. Sure, perm pavers won't find their way onto every commercial site, but they will definately have their place in the higher end markets.

[Evening Star Lighting]

Permeable pavers will be more popular of a choice in the future as the demand for ground water recharge continues. Almost all commercial (and now residential) projects, including large patios and driveways and parking lots all have to manage their storm water run-off by allowing it to percolate back to the aquifer.

[cgland]

I agree. permeable asphalt is becoming more and more popular around here, but is much weaker than typical asphalt due to the abscence of alot of tar, which aids in the permeability.

[SCgreenscapes]

Here is a site talking about low impact storm water management. With this type of though process i can see permeable pavers becoming more and more requested. But on the other hand, my father in law has a place at Myrtle Beach and they stipulate the same rules. The rule says that you can only have a certain amount of concrete on the property, but the catch is, they do not consider pavers as concrete since the have "joints" in them.

http://www.watercrunch.blogspot.com/

[Andrew Hardscape]

Those modular fireplaces look very nice.

But, man, I'm old school. I like something crafted of stone to be done by a real, true, mason.

[mrusk]

If you are looking for a new break through product to make millions, I do not think you will find it in this business. I do know that in almost every market you can find a niche by just doing quality work.

[CaptainsLS]

You say that with such a lack of enthusiasm. The funny thing is, in my very first post I mentioned that I did in fact have something in mind. Every time I have mentioned the idea to a customer, they instantly wanted a design and quote. I was just curious who else was thinking outside the box.

[Meanix]

I agree captn. However this would be the last place to talk about such a break through product.

[cgland]

I agree captn. However this would be the last place to talk about such a break through product.
Why is that? Are we not here to share information and standardize the industry? That is why we created this site. If not to better the industry, I would love to hear why you participate here.

[Mbella]

You say that with such a lack of enthusiasm. The funny thing is, in my very first post I mentioned that I did in fact have something in mind. Every time I have mentioned the idea to a customer, they instantly wanted a design and quote. I was just curious who else was thinking outside the box.

PM me the idea and I'll let you know what I think.LOL

[kootoomootoo]

Hope its recession proof.

[CaptainsLS]

Hope its recession proof.

Here is a description of my market pulled right off the census website:

"In 2000, ******* had a median income of $106,245. ******* is regarded in the state as a town where many of the people are well-off. The town has a large middle class. ******* finds a smaller share of its people living in poverty than most places in the state. To its credit, the people in the town value education and a large proportion are college graduates. You could say that ******* is a good place if you're looking to marry or date a rich person, with its relatively large population of well-paid single people."

To be honest, I don't think a recession will have a huge effect here. It is a valid point that a recession is in the near future for our economy however.

[kootoomootoo]

Here is a description of my market pulled right off the census website:

"In 2000, ******* had a median income of $106,245. ******* is regarded in the state as a town where many of the people are well-off. The town has a large middle class. ******* finds a smaller share of its people living in poverty than most places in the state. To its credit, the people in the town value education and a large proportion are college graduates. You could say that ******* is a good place if you're looking to marry or date a rich person, with its relatively large population of well-paid single people."

To be honest, I don't think a recession will have a huge effect here. It is a valid point that a recession is in the near future for our economy however.


Your town ................... sounds great. I could get divorced, move there...like you said its a great place to marry or date (or both) a rich person plus you have high incomes.

[mrusk]

That qoute cracks me up. As i work on my marketing plan every year i am constanly checking median house hold incomes to help decide what towns to market in.

[CaptainsLS]

LOL. The quote makes this place sound like Cancun hit the lottery. To be honest ******* is a snobby PITA for someone like myself, although I like adding to the "well paid single person" statistic of *******