Softscape design for Travertine Walkway

[MuirView Design]

Here's my PROLandscape design for the travertine walkway I posted in another thread. Figured I get something going in the softscape category. In the design, I wanted to create a semi formal feel with a touch of a courtyard. I used Otto Luyken Cherry Laurel under the windows to form a classy hedgerow as a foundation. I anchored the stone pillars with two Dragon Lady Holly. A specimin red cutleaf Japenese Maple in the center to keep a formal feel as well as Green Gem boxwoods bordering the circle and walk.
Other plants in the design are:
Existing Thundercloud Plum
Weeping Serbian Spruce
Sky Pencil Holly
Oak Leaf Hydrangea
Big Daddy Hosta
Asst. Perennials.

The one thing that was nice about this one, was that I sprayed it out and then took the pic. In the image editor, I just dropped the plants into the circles and followed the orange line for the bed. In this one I tried to really have the softscape compliment the walkway, but still have the walkway and stone work as the real focal point.

[cgland]

I just bought the new edition of Dynascape w/ the color module. Here is something I was messing around w/ last night. Please don't make fun of it.

Chris

[GDK]

I really like the Travertine pavers. What do they run per square ft? They seem like a great alternative to concrete pavers around pools.

[MuirView Design]

Wow Chris,

I'm digging that a lot. I love the hand drawn look of the program and the color module looks great. The design is nice also. What's on the corner opposite the Hinoki Cypress?

[dallas05]

wo i like that look of dynascape. can you also do the 3-d imaging? iam in the market for a design software and until now i was totally sold on proscape.

[tthomass]

How much did that one set you back?

[cgland]

Well, the full version plus the color module was $2,995.00, but I had an older version, so the upgrade was like $1,500.00 or so.
Adam - Honestly, I don't know what that shrub is. I just liked the symbol and I was messin' around, so i threw it in w/ some color.
The program is awesome.....there is a learning curve though.
Dallas - It does not do Imaging, but it does allow you to import pics of a hardscape or plant that you may want to place on the design.

Chris

[tthomass]

I've been told if I get this system I should take the $400 course to learn to use it...........is it that hard to figure out?

Just buying the program isn't the end.....printer, paper etc.

[cgland]

We have a place locally that I email the files to and they print them out or plot them for me. I have not taken the course, but I would like to. There is one in Balt. mid Feb. That I would like to take, but its $1k

Chris

[mrusk]

Do you guys really like to leave your boxwoods as meatballs? My archeict has me planting boxwoods to always grow together as a hedge.

[cgland]

Depends on the desired look and the type of Boxwood. Some people like them separated, some like them as a hedge. I prefer them as a hedge though.

Chris

[mrusk]

Depends on the desired look and the type of Boxwood. Some people like them separated, some like them as a hedge. I prefer them as a hedge though.

Chris

Might be the first time we argreed on something!

[cgland]

No, Technically I agree w/ your architect. LOL!;)

Chris

[kootoomootoo]

I concur with your architect. One of my boxwood hedges.

[MuirView Design]

Do you guys really like to leave your boxwoods as meatballs? My archeict has me planting boxwoods to always grow together as a hedge.


A hedge is the intention of my design being that my design is a formal courtyard feel. Believe it or not it, all boxwoods start as meatball shapes and you actually have to trim them into a hedge over the course of a few years. My image render represents closely to how the landscape will look in the first year. There are many occasions however, where I feel boxwoods look great left separated. Especially Dwarf English or Green Mountain. It all depends on the situation. I'm sure your architect will agree.

[lawnkid]

I personally like boxwood hedges too but I have seen them look good in applications where they are seperated. There are two companies around here whose work is very easy to recognize because in every design, they have a hedge of boxwood following the top of a planter wall or along a walk. I bought ProLandscape back in September and have done some simple designs and have sold some jobs but I'd really like to learn to be efficient with it this winter.

[Mike 33]

I have pro vol. 12 didnt care to spend the $ to upgrade. I also thought there course in baltimore was a bit salty after what you spend on the program. Did you guys have trouble with cad? Im going to work on it over the winter.
mike

[MuirView Design]

I have pro vol. 12 didnt care to spend the $ to upgrade. I also thought there course in baltimore was a bit salty after what you spend on the program. Did you guys have trouble with cad? Im going to work on it over the winter.
mike

Mike,

Do you mean PRO Landscape? I have version 12 also. I have it down pretty well if you ever need a hand or have a question. I've used it to design all my hardscapes this year. I'm dying to try Dynascapes though, if I ever can find a cheap enough used copy.

[MuirView Design]

Finished up the planting for this design yesterday. Went back and installed some white mulch today!

[cgland]

Adam - What was the reason you changed the hardscape layout?

Chris

[MuirView Design]

Adam - What was the reason you changed the hardscape layout?

Chris

Do you mean taking out the curve in the walk?

[cgland]

Yes..............

[mrusk]

Adam- Job looks good. I just feel the space between the two pillars on the front steps is tight. I think it would of looked better if the pillars where inline with the corners of the house there. What was the distance between the insides of each pillar?

[MuirView Design]

Taking the serpentine out was for two reasons. One, the distance between the circle and driveway was so short that the serpentine almost felt like you were walking up a zig zag and almost made it feel narrower. Secondly, I wanted to come off of the circle, 90 degrees and dead center. This would've pushed me too far into the courtyard area. I thought making it a straight run was more efficient and fit better with the clean lines of the overall design. In all honesty, the change was more a result of poor design planning on my part than anything else. But, the homeowner loves the change so I'll take it.

Rusk,
The space between the pillars is 4', which is the same width as the walk. There is 5' between the pillars and the door. I agree in hindsight that the pillars are a bit confining, but it's not at all uncomfortable. I like the idea of pushing the pillars out to the side and opening up the landing, but I just felt like it would've left a weird dead space on this project. Plus, when I did the design, this was originally going to be all dry laid EP Henry with all the existing concrete being removed and opening it up a little. I was able to upsell to all natural stone and masonry, but for cost reasons, we had to build off of the existing stoop, which limited the options.

[mrusk]

Taking the serpentine out was for two reasons. One, the distance between the circle and driveway was so short that the serpentine almost felt like you were walking up a zig zag and almost made it feel narrower. Secondly, I wanted to come off of the circle, 90 degrees and dead center. This would've pushed me too far into the courtyard area. I thought making it a straight run was more efficient and fit better with the clean lines of the overall design. In all honesty, the change was more a result of poor design planning on my part than anything else. But, the homeowner loves the change so I'll take it.

Rusk,
The space between the pillars is 4', which is the same width as the walk. There is 5' between the pillars and the door. I agree in hindsight that the pillars are a bit confining, but it's not at all uncomfortable. I like the idea of pushing the pillars out to the side and opening up the landing, but I just felt like it would've left a weird dead space on this project. Plus, when I did the design, this was originally going to be all dry laid EP Henry with all the existing concrete being removed and opening it up a little. I was able to upsell to all natural stone and masonry, but for cost reasons, we had to build off of the existing stoop, which limited the options.


Makes sense. Cost is always a issue. I always do 5 ft wide walkways. I think they look better and are more comftable to walk on. I've timed myself. It takes no more time to do a 5 ft walk as it does a 4.

[landdesign]

Finished up the planting for this design yesterday. Went back and installed some white mulch today!

Adam--nice work ! I like the planting you installed around the walk. I like the Otto's as a foundation plant, but with this cold weather they're gonna look real bad in march. I just threw some in the ground last week and I know I'll be replacing them. They are such bitches if you plant them too late!

[MuirView Design]

Adam--nice work ! I like the planting you installed around the walk. I like the Otto's as a foundation plant, but with this cold weather they're gonna look real bad in march. I just threw some in the ground last week and I know I'll be replacing them. They are such bitches if you plant them too late!


I think they'll be fine. They were B&B's with a big chuck of earth and the ground wasn't frozen yet. They'll pull through. Just need to be watered regularly. Just be sure not to fertilize this time of year. You don't want any new growth being promoted and exposed.

[Colonial]

A hint with the Otto's for the wonderful weather, Anti-Transfilm. Spray it on and you wont have the half brown leaves you do with otto's in the Spring after a chilly winter or late planting. It will also cut down on how much watering you have to do.

[MuirView Design]

A hint with the Otto's for the wonderful weather, Anti-Transfilm. Spray it on and you wont have the half brown leaves you do with otto's in the Spring after a chilly winter or late planting. It will also cut down on how much watering you have to do.


Sounds interesting. Who makes that and were is something like that available?

[kootoomootoo]

A hedge is the intention of my design being that my design is a formal courtyard feel. Believe it or not it, all boxwoods start as meatball shapes and you actually have to trim them into a hedge over the course of a few years. My image render represents closely to how the landscape will look in the first year. There are many occasions however, where I feel boxwoods look great left separated. Especially Dwarf English or Green Mountain. It all depends on the situation. I'm sure your architect will agree.


If you look at my pic ...this is how they looked the day I installed them.
Instant hedge.

[zedosix]

Here is a plan that I did about 4 yrs back. I highly recommend taking the course, I practised for about 3 months then took a course, it answered alot of questions that I probably would not of figured out on my own.

[MuirView Design]

Here is a plan that I did about 4 yrs back. I highly recommend taking the course, I practised for about 3 months then took a course, it answered alot of questions that I probably would not of figured out on my own.

Zedo, are you referring to Dynascape? Do you do all the softscape design as well for your company?

[zedosix]

Zedo, are you referring to Dynascape? Do you do all the softscape design as well for your company?

Yes, Dynascape is the course I'm referring to. I have just the basic, not interested in all the colors etc. On average I do about 60 plans a year, I figure I already spend way too much time on them.
Yes I do all the designing. In fact much of this morning I worked on a full plan for front side and back yard.

[MuirView Design]

Yes, Dynascape is the course I'm referring to. I have just the basic, not interested in all the colors etc. On average I do about 60 plans a year, I figure I already spend way too much time on them.
Yes I do all the designing. In fact much of this morning I worked on a full plan for front side and back yard.

Do you find yourself getting faster? For me, I'm still relatively new at designing. I'd say I've done maybe 15-20 or so. I find the biggest challenge not to be learning the software, but the mental laboring I go through with each one. I have a tendency to over-think things, coupled with my obsessive personality, which causes me to spend way more time than I probably should on designs. Add to that the deadline factor related to designing and I find it to be an extremely stressful part of the job, but at the same time, one of the most rewarding in the end. I guess the more I do it and the more different situations I come across, the faster and more efficient I will become. Probably another factor in what i go through is the mental exhaustion from doing all the install work during the day. As soon as this eases up, things may be easier in this regard.

[Grn Mtn]

I see so many really good looking designs (and more crappy ones) that don't seem to take mature size of plant or the maintenance aspect into account. Bushes growing over walks, branches rubbing against the house siding, plants requiring trimming buried behind delicate sedums, extreme curves in borders so mowers either create ruts by turning too hard, or blow grass into the bed on the other side.

Is it that people just don't care about how the homeowner will have to take care of the plantings down the road? or just a general lack of understanding softscapes?

[MuirView Design]

I see so many really good looking designs (and more crappy ones) that don't seem to take mature size of plant or the maintenance aspect into account. Bushes growing over walks, branches rubbing against the house siding, plants requiring trimming buried behind delicate sedums, extreme curves in borders so mowers either create ruts by turning too hard, or blow grass into the bed on the other side.

Is it that people just don't care about how the homeowner will have to take care of the plantings down the road? or just a general lack of understanding softscapes?

What are you referring to specifically? I've done plenty of maintenance, 6+ years and I see poorly placed plants all the time. As far as designing goes, it all depends. Sometime the intention is to allow things to grow over a walk as in a traditional English Garden look. Some landscape simply require more maintenance than others as well. Most of my landscape installs will generate a yearly bed maintenance job and I will be responsible for upkeep, which always helps. In a garden that is constantly growing and changing, the proper maintenance will often require some moving and shifting of plants over time as things grow. I think it is unreasonable for anyone to assume they can install a landscape and walk away without it ever having to be touched again, unless you do some really boring designs. Of course, you want to plant with the foresight to think about future growth patterns and keep depth in mind, but i don't think it's always a bad thing to have two plants grow somewhat into each other if the depth is right. I do always tell my customers that there is no such thing and a no maintenance landscape.....low maintenance maybe...but never no maintenance.

A problem that I see quite a bit is people underestimating the size of certain ornamental grasses and/or the shade that they will generate.

[Grn Mtn]

Adam I listed specific examples, what I wasn't doing was trashing your work, more thinking outloud. what got me thinking was the plants you have up against the house, just a tad closer than I would put them, but your layout overall is good, it just got me thinking thats all. The type of client makes a difference too, mine generally are not the type to pay for a yearly service so I try to limit the amount of plants that will require "work". I can see how as a larger company creating service work can be benifical.

[mrusk]

Rich people do not want to wait awhile to have a mature looking landscape. I install very high maintenace landscapes. If they are not taking care of they will look over grown before we know it.

[MuirView Design]

I still don't like the idea of shoving boxwoods right next to each other. 18"-2' from center is proper spacing. Keeping them 18" from center to the edge of the walk will allow them to grow to 3' wide comfortably. The Green Gem Boxwoods I used will only get 4'x4' at full maturity, so this is not a stretch. The Otto Luyken Cherry Laurels against the house can be kept at 3' wide as well, so 18" - 2' off the house is the proper distance. If they were viburnums or Rhodedendrons I'd say they are way to close, but with the proper maintenance they should be fine. The Dragon Lady hollies will grow into the Otto Luyken hedge row a little, but that's the intention. The Sky Pencils are also up against the house pretty close, but I want them to hug the wall and max out at their 10'x2' mature size. I do appreciate the criticism overall and I don't mean to sound defensive. I don't want to keep splitting hairs over such a dinky little job!

[Colonial]

Adam,

to answer your question, The Transfilm can be bought at alot of places. I usually order it online from amleonard.com. We use it whenever we plant in dead summer heat, or around now. We also put together a pre-winter maintenance program for customers that have ott's, holly's, etc. One of our commercial accounts have abt 300 hollies in the parking lot island that used to get wind burn real bad, we started spraying them 1 to 2 times and now they don brown out the leaves.

hope this helps

[custom patios]

is transfilm the same thing as wiltproof?
steveo

[Grn Mtn]

.... The Otto Luyken Cherry Laurels against the house can be kept at 3' wide as well, so 18" - 2' off the house is the proper distance....so thats what those are, I have not seen that variety at my nursery's If they were viburnums or Rhodedendrons I'd say they are way to close,...agreed! The Sky Pencils are also up against the house pretty close, but I want them to hug the wall and max out at their 10'x2' mature size....skypencils won't be a problem except waiting for them to reach 10', I planted some 4 years ago and they have only grown about 6", it is one of my favorite plants I do appreciate the criticism overall and I don't mean to sound defensive. I don't want to keep splitting hairs over such a dinky little job!...come on, thats how it always works, discus the stupid stuff and the main point gets overlooked


is transfilm the same thing as wiltproof?
steveo
yes it is, just branding.

[Colonial]

as green mtn said, yes. The transfilm is alot cheaper because its not the Wiltpruf brand.

[HRLand]

I started using wilt-pruf this fall because of all the dried out hollies I've seen the last couple of years. I'm glad to hear it's worked for others. I'll have to look into transfilm.

[Colonial]

It works great I actually found it accident about4 years ago. About 2 years ago we started selling it as a little "extra" service

[MuirView Design]

Good Stuff. i'll see if I can find it. Maybe at Shemins???

[Colonial]

Shemins should have it. Just found a great deal on Wilt Pruf .com its like $250.00 for a 5 gallon jug of concentrate.

[HRLand]

Wow $250.00? I thought it was expensive at $175.00.

[Colonial]

Sorry 250 was the Transfilm

Wiltpruf is $148 for a five gallon.

[HRLand]

:confused:Now you've got me confused. I thought you said transflm is cheaper.:confused:

[Colonial]

I calculate it by the ounce, Tansfilm is cheaper to apply. Sorry bout that I always assume everyone calculates the cost by application rate.

[JZap]

The job looks great. I'm going to have to be critical with the landscaping. It actually looks at lot like something I would design based on plant selection. I think the design is awesome! But are those skypencils along the garage? under the gutter? That bed will most likely be overgrown in a few years at most, no? I only say anything, b/c I also use PRO Land. and and have found myself selling designs that aren't going to work in 3-5 years and have been honest with my customers and told them I think we should maybe space this out more and ended up using the shrubs elsewhere on their property. Now I make sure I have a scaled CAD drawing with accurate sizes of the plants actually being installed. Again, nice job, just something to think about.

[Evening Star Lighting]

Looks great!. The only thing I don't like is the shrubs up against the garage. When they get bigger, they will eventually be forced forward and possibly over crowd the other plantings. I can't tell by your photos...are they growing on lattice? (as a spreader)

[MuirView Design]

Do you guys find that sky pencil hollies are aggressive growers? Granted, they are a relatively new on the scene, from what I've seen they are slow growers and with minor pruning, and the right wind protection, they can accommodate tight areas without an issue. They seem to take up more vertical space than anything else. From what I've read, they will top out at 10 feet after 10-12 years and only be 2-3 feet wide. Here's some good info on them http://www.usna.usda.gov/Newintro/skypenc1.html