Veneer ?'s

[NewHorizon's Land]

What type of veneer do you usually use a cast stone or thin cut and why?

What manufactures do you like to use the most?

[MuirView Design]

Depends on budget and application. Cast is obviously cheaper (half price in some cases). I prefer the look of natural stone (thin cut), but there is definitely more labor involved with it as well.

As far as manufacturers, Eldorado Stone is one of my favorites. Owens Corning makes nice stuff too.

[NewHorizon's Land]

When you break cast with a brick hammer do you see the "concrete" like when you cut pavers? If so, how do you hide that

[MuirView Design]

When you break cast with a brick hammer do you see the "concrete" like when you cut pavers? If so, how do you hide that

Sure do. Generally, your pointing will hide any cuts or breaks you make. If you are doing a drystack look, just keep your cuts on the bottom of the stone.

Once efficient, you should make very little in the way of cuts or breaks.

[NewHorizon's Land]

Thanks. I personally like the dry stack look. I want to do entrance pillars with a mailbox in one out of cmu's and veneer

[MuirView Design]

CMU and mortar is cheap. Might be worth practicing on a little pillar for yourself first. I really want to do a set of pillars out of brick.

[NewHorizon's Land]

The pillars would be for my house.
What type of cap would you suggest for this type of pillar?

[MuirView Design]

We did granite caps on these pillars and I think it turned out nice. Depends on the color of the veneer and the surround. There are many, many choices that would nice. Thermal flag, limestone, concrete, sandstone, granite...... and if you wanted to do a mosiac top, there are tons of other choices.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/506/travertinewalkwaysidevifa6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/travertinewalkwaysidevifa6.jpg/1/w1280.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img220/travertinewalkwaysidevifa6.jpg/1/)

[CaptainsLS]

New Horizon, Like Adam said, familiarize yourself with laying block first. It’s the equivalent to your paver base for the stone. I like to account for a 3-4” shelf that extends past the block work for the stone to sit on, even when using sawn cut stone. Just make sure the shelf sits a little below final grade.
Another word of advice: Admix
I use a type S with a 1:1 water/admix for my mortar. You want to trowel mortar on the block about ¼-1/2” thick as well as onto the back of the stone. Spreading a thin layer of mortar onto the back of the stone will give you a noticeably better bond when trying to stick them to the block.
When pointing, if you have too, use straight admix and no water.

[NewHorizon's Land]

What is admix?

[CaptainsLS]

It’s an acrylic liquid additive that replaces water and is designed to increase adhesive bond as well as tensile and flexural strength of the mortar. Most mason’s call it “milk” ask your local masonry distributor and they should have it. I paint the back of every stone with the straight admix making it a bonding agent. You can use it as either a bonding agent, or an additive.

[NewHorizon's Land]

So build the pillar with cmu's then put a 1/2" scratch coat on, then put the admix on the back of the stone, then mortar the stone and then adhere it to the cmu's?

[bigvictu]

Here's a question for you guys. I'm thinking of doing some black aluminum fencing with pillars every 3 sections. I don't want to do paver block. I want to use a pennsylvania fieldstone. I see some local companies stack it with mortar. Would building a cmu on the inside and then stacking the fieldstone with mortar on the outside give it any more strength? Not really a veneer, just as a "core"? I will get some pics of what I am thinking.

[CaptainsLS]

So build the pillar with cmu's then put a 1/2" scratch coat on, then put the admix on the back of the stone, then mortar the stone and then adhere it to the cmu's?

Yes. Apply a scratch or parge coat that’s approximately 1/4-1/2” of rich mortar (we use 2 sand to 1 type S for parge), once the scratch coat has cured, trowel modified mortar onto the surface about 1/2” tick, paint the back of the stone with the milk, apply a thin coat of mortar to the back of the stone, and apply stone to surface forcing mortar out from the sides to ensure proper adhesion.

[CaptainsLS]

Here's a question for you guys. I'm thinking of doing some black aluminum fencing with pillars every 3 sections. I don't want to do paver block. I want to use a pennsylvania fieldstone. I see some local companies stack it with mortar. Would building a cmu on the inside and then stacking the fieldstone with mortar on the outside give it any more strength? Not really a veneer, just as a "core"? I will get some pics of what I am thinking.

IMO using the CMU would only help you to keep true to your dimensions. When working with something like a fence I think it would be a wise move.

[NewHorizon's Land]

2 sand to 1 type S? I was just going to use ready mix bags of type S. Will that be ok

[CaptainsLS]

that should be fine

[NewHorizon's Land]

ok. I assume the sand was mason's sand and using regular type S mortar. If i were to mix mortar what ratios should I use

[CaptainsLS]

You can by all means use the pre-mixed stuff. If you want to buy sand and Type S cement separately, for the block I would use 3 sand to 1 cement. The scratch coat 2 sand to 1 cement. Mortar for stone would be 2 sand to 1 cement with admix. Any pointing would be 2 sand to 1 cement and straight admix.

Normally the admix would be cut, 50% water 50% admix then used to mix the mortar. For pointing use no water, just admix to make the mortar.

[NewHorizon's Land]

Thanks for all the help.

[SCgreenscapes]

we use a 3:1 on the type S. I have heard not to use the premixed type-S b/c it is too sandy for most applications. But i have not tried it, so i don't know for sure.

[NewHorizon's Land]

How deep do I need my footer? Can I just pour 6" at the frost line? then build with cmu's above to the desired height?

[MuirView Design]

How deep do I need my footer? Can I just pour 6" at the frost line? then build with cmu's above to the desired height?

You can do it that way. I would put 4" of clean stone below the footer as well. Also, the start of your footer should be 6" below the frost line. This is to securely anchor the base of your masonry work below the "heave" level. The upper 3-4' of ground will move constantly through the freeze thaw cycles, and anchoring below that will keep your work stationary and prevent it from cracking.

Keep in mind however, that you need room to work. On a small little pillar, it may be less of a headache to just pour up to your grade and build from there. Also, think about the finish height of your pillars. You need to determine this to figure out how high your footer needs to be. If your pillars are going to be 30" above finish height with 3" cap, then your footer should stop 5" below grade. I like to bang some rebar into the hole and use the laser to set the rebar to the height of the finished pour. Then you can use the top of the rebar as a visual gauge for finish height.

[NewHorizon's Land]

Ok thanks.

[MuirView Design]

Also, when I say the upper 3-4' of the ground will move, this obviously depends on your climate. Captain, Mark, Green Monster and those guys up in New England have to dig 48" footers (I believe) by code......in PA it's 36" generally......I think Rusk has said his code in N. Jersey is 40". I'd image you are not much different from PA in MD, but I would check out the code and go from there.

[NewHorizon's Land]

I believe we are 24", but thanks for the heads up

[mrusk]

Frost line here in North Jersey is 42" I normally dig alittle deeper to put 4-6" of clean stone under the concrete. The top of my stone is at 42" below final grade.

[musclecarboy]

Very good info here! I'm trying to design a small project to practice some stone work but haven't decided what to do. Anybody care to share ideas of what I could do in a weekend to get some good practice?