Finally some pics - Andes Travertine Job

[MuirView Design]

I finally got around to resizing my photos for the travertine patio job we worked on for all of September and into the first week of October. Three of us worked on the job....me, my brother and my other guy, who we called "wasteofspace". The job took about twice as long as I had anticipated as I was the only one on the job that had ever done any of this type of work before. Luckily my brother comes from the same blue collar gene pool as myself and he caught on like a champ. One things for sure, we learned a lot on this job, and besides a couple things here and there.....I'm happy with how it turned out.

I have a bunch of construction and progress pics....so i guess I'll just start at the beginning.

Here's the before pic and a few of the final sketchup renders for the job.

[Mark]

You better start posting some finish pics fast because that layout looks pretty sweet! Looking forward to seeing the final result! The layout looks very tasteful

[MuirView Design]

We started digging the footers first due to a snag in our drainage permits. In hindsight, I would've preferred to do the drainage work last as we had to haul 50 yards of soil off site, then bring it back in, but I was worried about September rains and wanted to take advantage of the hard ground. The drainage saved our worksite several times. We did a 215 foot run across two properties with 4 NDS Flowell stations, which were 3' wide by 3' deep. A 4" perf ran the length with a pop up emitter at one end and a 10'x4'x5' pit at the other. There were major issues with standing water in a marshy swale. We had that one storm of 3-4" over a few days and the whole area dried right out. Drainage worked great!

[custom patios]

come on already, the suspense is killing me.

[MuirView Design]

Gettin' to the good stuff!

[kcl]

What design program is that?

[MuirView Design]

Almost there.....

[MuirView Design]

....and some completed pics (hey, at least I don't make you wait a month and half for the final pics :boink:)

[MuirView Design]

And a few more.......

[mrusk]

You can come work for me!

[Mark]

Adam
That's beautiful man! I'm impressed, I really like the materials. Was the circular part of the patio shortened up some, where the table and chairs were in the pre pics? It looks like from the images it was more of a circular area and a bit more open???? Or is it just the angle of the way the pics were taken? Very classy job...first class!

[CaptainsLS]

Adam…. absolutely awesome! Great design and execution. One question…on the existing concrete stoop is that some type of substrate or just sand?

[Mark]

wondering the same thing myself

Question for you Adam or anyone else......when you put a planter within a column like you did....how do you accomodate drainage within that? Or do you leave it as is?

[MuirView Design]

Here's one I forgot....shows a better angle of the width. We did shrink it up just a little ease up on some budget constraints. The whole firepit area shifted down and in because they didn't want to move a tiny little tri-color beech.

That's Schluter Ditra membrane on the existing slab. There was what looked like the start of a hairline in the slab, so I wanted to be safe and put the substrate down to keep the travertine from cracking down the road.

The planters have clean stone and a weep hole with parged sides. There are actually plastic containers that we cut down to fit perfectly in the holes. She is only going to be putting annuals in the pillars.

[custom patios]

Well..... I am usually the one to bring about the "should haves"..... but I must say you have finally put it all into one package. Adam, excellent choice of materials, excellent colors, excellent craftsmanship! the only thing I could say is that it would have been nice to include the side step/landing into the patio space instead of off the patio. But that was probably not your choice. AWEsome,Awesome work! No doubt you own that whole community over there. From a concept to completion I think you captured the essence of what its all about... perfection.

[MuirView Design]

I'm waiting for the customer to send me the night pics. We have a total of 19 integral lights. It looks amazing!

[Mark]

Any plans for plantings? I've got to be honest...that's one of the nicest jobs I've seen on these forums. Clean layout yet unique...again KUDOS!

[MuirView Design]

Well..... I am usually the one to bring about the "should haves"..... but I must say you have finally put it all into one package. Adam, excellent choice of materials, excellent colors, excellent craftsmanship! the only thing I could say is that it would have been nice to include the side step/landing into the patio space instead of off the patio. But that was probably not your choice. AWEsome,Awesome work! No doubt you own that whole community over there. From a concept to completion I think you captured the essence of what its all about... perfection.


Steve.....I can honestly say I wouldn't never been able to do a job like this if it weren't for the time I spent working with you. You taught me a lot bro. Thank you.

[MuirView Design]

Any plans for plantings? I've got to be honest...that's one of the nicest jobs I've seen on these forums. Clean layout yet unique...again KUDOS!

Thanks Mark...It's no Bedrock, but I'm happy with it.

We put in 4 of 7 Cryptomeria and 3 Bald Cypress for the property screen. In the spring we will address the patio landscape. I already have wire run for more uplighting. I'm hoping to seal the patio yet this season if the weather holds out a little.

[custom patios]

did you use sound board or plywood for compaction? Ive been using sound board and found that less pieces break... I think. Really dude, I'm blown away! You've got to be very proud of your accomplishments. I know you are a very humble guy,but its time to recognize your a force to be reconed with.

[Mark]

Thanks Mark...It's no Bedrock, but I'm happy with it.

We put in 4 of 7 Cryptomeria and 3 Bald Cypress for the property screen. In the spring we will address the patio landscape. I already have wire run for more uplighting. I'm hoping to seal the patio yet this season if the weather holds out a little.

I've been staring at bedrock everyday for the last 12 or 13 months...I'm sick of looking at it. So, it's nice to see a job with completely different products installed with such a level of professionalism. Do you do your own design work?

[mrusk]

I know you are a very humble guy,but its time to recognize your a force to be reconed with.



Ain't that the truth!

I live 150 miles away from adam yet I still feel threatened by him!!!!

[MuirView Design]

I've been staring at bedrock everyday for the last 12 or 13 months...I'm sick of looking at it. So, it's nice to see a job with completely different products installed with such a level of professionalism. Do you do your own design work?


Yeah man! Sell it, concieve it, design it, model it, render it, then build it. I need a vacation!

[Mark]

did you use sound board or plywood for compaction? Ive been using sound board and found that less pieces break... I think. Really dude, I'm blown away! You've got to be very proud of your accomplishments. I know you are a very humble guy,but its time to recognize your a force to be reconed with.

Sound board??? So, you compact over those pavers? They look very uniform in thickness...the pavers....do you screed and lay them or hand set each one? And then compaction over the top like you would normal pavers?

[MuirView Design]

did you use sound board or plywood for compaction? Ive been using sound board and found that less pieces break... I think. .

I used 1/2" plywood and broke about 15 pieces. I blame it on the oversized aggregate in the concrete sand. It was frustrating. I literally have two 8x8 pieces of travertine left and that's it.

[MuirView Design]

So you guys don't think the light colored border looks out of place? It worried me the whole job, because it's not something you see everyday. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen it like that. It was a risky move, but I think it really sets it off.

[custom patios]

Sound board??? So, you compact over those pavers? They look very uniform in thickness...the pavers....do you screed and lay them or hand set each one? And then compaction over the top like you would normal pavers?

I'm sure techniques vary but I lay them as I would a concete paver and compact them using sound board as a buffer.Buffer...Very important.

[custom patios]

So you guys don't think the light colored border looks out of place? It worried me the whole job, because it's not something you see everyday. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen it like that. It was a risky move, but I think it really sets it off.

It makes the job! Very smart move. The ashlar style veneer is another wise choice. the bench back tile is yet again another smart choice. As I said its one sweet package!

[mrusk]

Adam the patio is missing one thing. You know what it is?

[custom patios]

I used 1/2" plywood and broke about 15 pieces. I blame it on the oversized aggregate in the concrete sand. It was frustrating. I literally have two 8x8 pieces of travertine left and that's it.

it is very annoying. i laid a 1000 sq and broke about 7 or 8 and i'm smacking it with 4000 lbs..

[MuirView Design]

Adam the patio is missing one thing. You know what it is?

Ummmmmm........decent profit margin?

[cgland]

Adam that is amazing dude! I love it. You are a true craftsman. In the end I'm sure you're pizzed that you didn't make as much money, but that is one job for the portfolio man. Kudos........all hail Adam

[Colonial]

That looks awesome Adam....real nice job!!!

[mrusk]

Ummmmmm........decent profit margin?

No I think it would of looked better with grass joints!

[NewHorizon's Land]

Sweet job. I really like the look of it. Did you design that all by hand in Sketch up or do you have templates for the pavers? Even though the profit margin was sh*tty you should be able to get ALOT more jobs from that. Great job

[ClearValley]

F'n amazing....Too nice for the house ....sweet............We are not worthy LOL

[MuirView Design]

Sweet job. I really like the look of it. Did you design that all by hand in Sketch up or do you have templates for the pavers? Even though the profit margin was sh*tty you should be able to get ALOT more jobs from that. Great job

The design was modeled in Sketchup and rendered in Vue 6 Xstream. The travertine in the render is from a pic I took on another job and turned into a seamless texture. I used a bump map of the joints to make them look like they are individual pieces. It's the same travertine texture I posted in the sketchup thread.

[MuirView Design]

Adam that is amazing dude! I love it. You are a true craftsman. In the end I'm sure you're pizzed that you didn't make as much money, but that is one job for the portfolio man. Kudos........all hail Adam

Thanks Chris! I must say, Josh was really a big part of making this job happen. He built the grill unit, ran all the lighting, tiled and cut the fireplace caps with no help from me. It was really nice to have a competent guy by my side.....it made a big difference in the final product. The next time we do a job like this, we will be faster and more efficient.......and make more money. I'm hoping by next year, I can design and sell full time and my brother can carry the ball in the field. We're hoping to continue to do more innovative and creative projects in the future......hopefully this job will put us one step closer to getting more of those opportunities.

[HRLand]

Beautiful! Do you know how much you can get in Jersey for that?!

[GreenMonster]

Adam, wow! Wicked pissah!

very very very impressive. Now that you have that one under your belt, go make some nice money on the next one!

[Mbella]

Adam, well what else can I say that the others haven't said already. Very, very nice design and install.

As far as the PM, it will come Adam. That job involves many different applications and an opportunity to learn. I'm sure you learned a few lessons and will be the better for it.

Again, nice work and I'm happy to see you and your bro pluggin away.

[zedosix]

Fantastic work mon ami, really love the layout and material choices. It really shows when someone is passionate about their job and you have really outdone yourself on this one. I submit my vote for best back yard patio!

[kootoomootoo]

Guess you get a t shirt. Awesome design and work...the drainage permit...is that related to any patio work in your area (never heard that b4) or was it a separate job on this to alleviate a drainage problem..

[musclecarboy]

Breathtaking!

Whats with all those fuggen vents on the roof?

[MuirView Design]

Guess you get a t shirt. Awesome design and work...the drainage permit...is that related to any patio work in your area (never heard that b4) or was it a separate job on this to alleviate a drainage problem..

Normally, it wouldn't be an issue, but the homeowner contacted the township engineer to find out if we could tap into the existing storm water basin and it turned into a big thing. We had to submit drainage plans, have an inspection and get written approval. (and still we couldn't tap in) It was less of a pain to get approval to build the patio. Go figure.


I'm not sure what the deal is with all the vents on the roof. What kills is for me is the bilco doors. Man i wish someone would make a nice high end option. Maybe cedar doors with sides you can stone. I cringe whenever I do an estimate for a patio and there are metal bilco doors in the space.

[mckeeland]

Simply Awesome Man! That turned out amazing, i love the contrast of the border. how did you like working with the travertine? i have the same problem with the pavers breaking too. i only used 1/4" and a rubber paver pad. the problem is the bigger pavers just want to crack no matter what and they have hair line cracks to begin with.

next time i am going to us a sand and then take us a bull-float to precompact the sand. think about it, how far are you going to compact a 16"x24" slab into the sand? thats a lot of surface are to push into the sand.

[custom patios]

Simply Awesome Man! That turned out amazing, i love the contrast of the border. how did you like working with the travertine? i have the same problem with the pavers breaking too. i only used 1/4" and a rubber paver pad. the problem is the bigger pavers just want to crack no matter what and they have hair line cracks to begin with.

next time i am going to us a sand and then take us a bull-float to precompact the sand. think about it, how far are you going to compact a 16"x24" slab into the sand? thats a lot of surface are to push into the sand.

that sounds logical and I've wondered that myself. I used to use that method when laying clay brick into screenings after I got tired of the old school "hand setting" method.

[mckeeland]

edit on my last post, i meant to say that i wanted to use a portland and sand mix as well as bull float it.

i have used the bull float to fill in screed rail joints and it works very well.

[WoodwardsChris]

Great job Adam. I know it was quite frustrating for you doing this job, but the results are fantastic. This should be a great showpiece project for you. Now that your crew has been through this once, they should become more
productive.

Nice work.

[custom patios]

edit on my last post, i meant to say that i wanted to use a portland and sand mix as well as bull float it.

i have used the bull float to fill in screed rail joints and it works very well.

i wasnt clear either. we used to compact the screenings and then screed again. I wonder if ther was a way to pack the sand some before laying the travertine. I've noticed when replacing the 16x16s and 16x24s that the sand isnt real tight.

[mckeeland]

thats the reason for mixing the portland in, like EP's propac, so it will not settle anymore after the initial laying. plus when you run ur bull float over the sand you will push down any air pockets in the sand and give you nice smooth transitions. thats the important thing with those big slabs to make sure they contact the sand as much as possible to avoid cracking.

[MuirView Design]

edit on my last post, i meant to say that i wanted to use a portland and sand mix as well as bull float it.

i have used the bull float to fill in screed rail joints and it works very well.


That's a good idea. How would you bed the travertine after that? I had problems with quite a few of my pieces not bedding properly to begin with. We hit it with two 4K# tamper passes on top of 1/2" ply and still had a bunch of "rockers" that I had to pull up and set by hand. I was also counting on 3/8" compaction and I think I only got like 1/4", but again, I think this was due to the concrete sand I used having such chunky aggregate in it. Next time I'll know better and take it back.

Overall, this is my 4th travertine project, and in spite of the little annoyances with breakage, I love the product and will continue to promote it. The Andes Manchester was great to work with. It came in crates of pre-bundled packs that equaled a section of the pattern. It made it a treat to lay. The bulk of the patio was laid and cut in in two days with two guys.

The veneer we used was EP Henry Cast Veneer. Style was ledgestone drystack and color was Breckenridge. For the firepit and wall caps, we used West Mountain sandstone. All the travertine tile for the grill area and back of seat wall was also Andes. Appliances are from Fire Magic. We used 1" Andes bullnose (Devonshire) for the steps and 2" bullnose for the seat. The firepit was a prefab unit that we got from Allied...I forget who makes it. It comes in three sections and just gets mortared together. We used halved 4.5" x 9" firebrick for inside the pit and used a mix of 1 pt Portland, 1 pt Fire clay and 1 pt sand for the fire mortar.

[MuirView Design]

Great job Adam. I know it was quite frustrating for you doing this job, but the results are fantastic. This should be a great showpiece project for you. Now that your crew has been through this once, they should become more
productive.

Nice work.

Thanks Chris, you guys at Woodward were a big help on this project and Barb especially went above and beyond for me. I really appreciate it.

[custom patios]

thats the reason for mixing the portland in, like EP's propac, so it will not settle anymore after the initial laying. plus when you run ur bull float over the sand you will push down any air pockets in the sand and give you nice smooth transitions. thats the important thing with those big slabs to make sure they contact the sand as much as possible to avoid cracking.

the thing with portland is you MUST compact by the end of the day or your in big trouble. The ep propac is a rip-off."Proprietary Blend". Ha. I never thought of floating it though. great idea. do you screed again after you float?

[mckeeland]

those rockers are a big pain in the azz, especially if you have any over lay situation like we did around the pool. and yes, the normal 3/8" is way to much to account for compaction with travertine. i learned that the hard way! had to pick up and relay around the entire pool, argggg! travertine does have its learning curve from pavers, but its work the it when its done.

steve, we just screed and then hit it with the bull float. just like hand troweling, but the bull float has more weight and gives a little more compaction.

[-EGLC-]

that is absolutely beautiful!

[MuirView Design]

http://vimeo.com/2022154 - Check this out. It's an animation I did for this patio design. Came out pretty cool.

[NewHorizon's Land]

What color, model, and manufacture veneer stone did you use?

[bigvictu]

Awesome to the nth degree. What is the coping of the fireplace?

[MuirView Design]

Justin, it was EP Henry veneer - breckenridge dry stack.

Vic, thanks! The coping is west mountain sandstone.

[MuirviewJosh]

I will say this. One thing that really caught me off guard was the amount of time it took to do the dry stack install. Firstly we opted to start our first coarse off of the ground in a few necessary spots. Thats a pain. I think we mixed our mortar way too dry in the beginning for this application. Thats a pain. For the dry stack you need an almost soupy mix. This will allow for the mortar to ooze out from behind the one you just laid enough to grab onto the one on the bottom of it. This is vital in an application w/ no seems.

Also I found that I worried way too much about keeping the seems super tight. We found that if you just run your horizontals level the end result is much better that trying to fit in each piece tight like a puzzle. I often had to shim a piece that sagged a bit or "rip" a piece length wise to keep the level. Way less time consuming that way and a much nicer finished product.

The last issue not to be underestimated is that everything that we veneered was small areas w/ lots and lots of corners. W/ the cast stone, this sucks up way more time because of the constraints of how you can cut the product. W/ real stone you wouldn't have that issue.

Just a FYI.

Later,

Josh

[NewHorizon's Land]

Thanks for the imput. Approx hpw many man hours did the veneer take?

[mrusk]

The dry stack veener killed me on my last job. Just be happy you guys did not have to mix feildstone into the veener also.


Every job you learn something.

[MuirView Design]

I'll be honest.......I am not a fan of the veneer we used. I expected a lot more "realism" from what I've heard touted about the EP veneer. Perhaps the UV rays will fade it into a better look, but, why companies mix in orange and purple stones is beyond me. I didn't notice any real range of color in the individual pieces, but they were almost all one color. Shape wise, they did a good job....color wise, I'll never use it again and wouldn't recommend it, as it looks too fake. It just doesn't make sense to do all that work digging and pouring footers, laying all that cmu, then finishing it off with a fake looking stone. It's one thing that will always bother me about this job.

[WoodwardsChris]

Adam:

I would assume you have seen the Quarry Cut in our store. It is thin cut stone and obviously looks more realistic since it is natural stone. I'm with you...why they put orange, purple ect... is beyond me. Your project still looks good.

[MuirView Design]

Adam:

I would assume you have seen the Quarry Cut in our store. It is thin cut stone and obviously looks more realistic since it is natural stone. I'm with you...why they put orange, purple ect... is beyond me. Your project still looks good.


Yeah man! I'll take the quarry cut NATURAL veneer over the cast any day of the week. Do you know if Quarry Cut has a natural stacked stone veneer?

[NewHorizon's Land]

Chris, What is the brand of sotne you are talkign about? Do they have a website?

[MuirView Design]

quarrycut.com

[mckeeland]

how much a sq/ft does that stone cost? is there any issue with the weight and the stone sticking to the substrate?

[MuirView Design]

Here's what happens when you blow out the budget and leave no money for patio furniture.......:pound:

[mrusk]

That is to high end of a design for that house!!!

[WoodwardsChris]

Jay:

Quarry Cut runs $8.50 a sqaure. The weight does not seem to be a problem. The only problem I have had is sometimes the pieces in the boxes are small.

[mckeeland]

Good to know, how about the corners? can you install it drystack?

[Mbella]

Good to know, how about the corners? can you install it drystack?

Jay, they have a few dry stack options. Check them out...http://www.quarrycut.com/page6.html

[Paver Man]

Wow, so I sign up to the forums, then get busy and never come back. And THIS is the first thread I check in on. All I can say is WOW. What an awesome job.

Now, I have to know more about this Google Sketchup thing. Where, how difficult, and how much?

Beautiful work!

[Right Touch]

wow! I only hope i can do that one day. Excellent job!