How much salt per acre>?

[kootoomootoo]

1. How much salt do YOU typically find yourself applying per acre
2. How much will salt cost you this yr.

[Colonial]

First question depends on alot of factors, type of surface, wet/dry, how much snow is on the ground, traffic, temperatures.

2) not much more then last.
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[Mbella]

Mike is right, too many variables. What if it's a pre-treat just to get people out of the buildings..... What if it's 2" of ice coming full force at rush hour....

I'm trying to think of what "typical" would be just to give a rough number and I can't.

[kootoomootoo]

Seems though that most guys in the industry dont have a clue how much they applied...so long as they apply it.

[CaptainsLS]

I know how much gets used on each account, but not by the acre. Each storm is different, that condo complex I was talking about averaged around 4 tons per event (I think.... haven’t looked at the snow stuff yet)

[kootoomootoo]

Each storm might be different and conditions might be different per event ....but so what ....facility managers want a price to salt an acre per event.

[Mbella]

Koo, why not give a per ton price, or per quantity price instead of a per area price?

Per area price is not in your favor.

[kootoomootoo]

Koo, why not give a per ton price, or per quantity price instead of a per area price?

Per area price is not in your favor.


Per ton is not a fixed price....How is it you cant look at a 1 acre lot and not say ...i will use x amount of salt on average per event. Here is my price.

ie 1 acre site Manager want to hear $125 to plow and $150 to salt.
salting might be say 600lbs for 1 contractor and 400lbs for another. None of the bids I have looked at spec how much salt to be applied per acre.

[Mbella]

Per ton is not a fixed price....How is it you cant look at a 1 acre lot and not say ...i will use x amount of salt on average per event. Here is my price.

ie 1 acre site Manager want to hear $125 to plow and $150 to salt.
salting might be say 600lbs for 1 contractor and 400lbs for another. None of the bids I have looked at spec how much salt to be applied per acre.

Per ton is not a fixed price for the prop. manager, but it is more fair for you, the contractor and a more accurate reflection of reality.

I know what prop. managers want to hear and like I said, it's not in your favor.

I can look at a one acre site and throw out a number....But guess what...I will make it high for the worst case scenario....and guess what....some other schmuck will come in and give a lower price because he doesn't think, or know of all the variables when it comes to ice control. Here's the best part..the prop. manager looking for the area price will take the lower number and I will have wasted my time.

Area pricing for Ice control is B.S. Don't waste your time.

BTW, throw your average out the window. It means nothing with regard to ice control. Prop. manager wants to budget and forecast x amount of ice/snow events x your acre price and come up with a magic number for budget purposes. It's B.S., not realistic and more than likely, not good for you.

[Colonial]

LOL,

first as for per ton do it by the yard for this simple reason. If your customer wants to get out of paying you all they have to do is report you to Weights & Measurements. If you are not weighing/have a weigh slip for what you charged and applied then its illegal for you to charge by the ton.

2nd: Koot if your asking for per acre pricing then i would go worst case scenario, which would be 1.5 ton per acre: This will cover you even if you put it on so thick it looks like it rained salt.

[Mbella]

LOL,

first as for per ton do it by the yard for this simple reason. If your customer wants to get out of paying you all they have to do is report you to Weights & Measurements. If you are not weighing/have a weigh slip for what you charged and applied then its illegal for you to charge by the ton.

2nd: Koot if your asking for per acre pricing then i would go worst case scenario, which would be 1.5 ton per acre: This will cover you even if you put it on so thick it looks like it rained salt.

Yeah, and cross your fingers and toes, because you're gonna need all the luck you can get.

[kootoomootoo]

One of the bids I have in front of me wants a seasonal price for salt.
No not per event/yard/ton but a price for the season.

So you don't bid these.

[Mbella]

One of the bids I have in front of me wants a seasonal price for salt.
No not per event/yard/ton but a price for the season.

So you don't bid these.

NO WAY!.........

[CaptainsLS]

Snowplowing flat out sucks. I don’t care much for it anymore. I give them a price for sanding per application and specify a cap limit. If more than say 3 applications are needed, I will make a phone call for authorization. If they don’t like it, too bad, they can get someone else. I’m not getting out of bed at 3am to beat on my trucks just so people can critique my line item costs. Most people don’t like how I bill, but I have some of the largest contracts in my area.

[kootoomootoo]

I would have to bid it at 300% of the norm as insurance...and still hope.

[Mbella]

I would have to bid it at 300% of the norm as insurance...and still hope.

That's where crossing the fingers and toes comes in. I enjoy snow removal and it has been very profitable for me.

Around here, there is too much work that allows for billing per ton of material applied to engage in a contract that calls for per acre pricing.

[Colonial]

Why is it such a prob to price per acre? I dont do it, but if you figure 3 acres at 1.5 tons per acre. you base your price off 4.5 tons per application for the acreage. Why would you have to cross your fingers for that? If you cant salt an acre with 1.5 tons you have other problems.

Unless they are asking for a flat price for per acre for the whole storm, but then that would be a per storm price...

Which are they asking for?

as for the seasonal Koot, we have in the past priced those but you have to be very careful with it and make sure your insulated, and make sure its at least a 3 year deal, thats got an out for you.

[Mbella]

Mike, not a problem to come up with a number, but cross your fingers and hope you get it because you have to pad your number in order to protect yourself.

You know as well as I there are always dumbazzes out there that will take a chance and go with a straight (lower) number.

[Colonial]

dumbasses never, lol

[Mbella]

dumbasses never, lol

No dumbasses in south central PA, I'm on my way.:)

[kootoomootoo]

They just want a seasonal price for the plowing and for the salting.
Bid was around $25k last season.

But the point you made about having a 3yr contract makes the most sense in terms of averaging your risk.

My problem is this is my 1st yr plowing so I don't have a few per push/per salt
contracts (yet) to offset the risk.

They just fired the last contractor hence the new bids but 1st yr bids are for
1yr only with a 2yr extension if everything goes ok. (This isnt in writing though)

[Colonial]

I wouldn't do it koot uless its at least 3 yrs. Reason being first year you are taking all the risk and if they dont renewyour screwed. How long was the old contractor there?