Jointsand Nightmare!

[cgland]

How do you approach a job where the poly sand was installed improperly (or never installed in lieu of regular sand) and you have to redo it? Do you just oversweep and call it a day or do you take the time and blow out the joints and redo from scratch? How do you price this service? T&M or contract price?

Chris

[kootoomootoo]

How do you install improperly>?

[zedosix]

Improperly installed could mean it was soaked too much during install, by washing all the bonding agents out. If it is regular sand I would probably pressure hose it out, let dry and install poly as per directions. Good luck either way. I would do T&M

[cgland]

Joint sand can be installed improperly by lack of compaction (thus leaving the joints with either air pockets within the sand or not filling them all the way) and most importantly, when installing Polymeric Joint Sand the most common botch is improperly wetting the sand. Most guys blow a hose all over it and flood the joints or they install it before a rain storm. By doing this they wash all of the polymers away. The other problem is LACK of wetting it down. This causes improper hardening of the jointsand (crust)

Chris

[kris]

It has happened to us and of course we had to redo it at no charge ..think a guy puttered away on that for 2 days fixing it up....was a couple of years ago now.

[GDK]

I would have to say that the worst I saw was when poly sand was applied after a rainstorm and the pavers were soaking wet.

[zedosix]

I would have to say that the worst I saw was when poly sand was applied after a rainstorm and the pavers were soaking wet.

Now that I would not be proud of:scared:

[cgland]

Maybe they were going for a textured look.

Chris

[mrusk]

If anyone ever has any issues with any polymeric sand made by ALLIANCE just call them. They stand behind their product 100%. They are a great company to deal with.

[cgland]

We use Alliance and Techniseal HP

Chris

[yardpro]

we use techniseal hp here as well.
we have had a few issues here and there with it not setting up correctly

[SzotAllied]

Sweeping poly sand over existing joint sand is a waste of time and money. If they dont want to pay for the job done right I would walk away. IMHO

[alliedms]

This is a nightmare process. 2 seasons ago I repaired, along with Polysand manufacturer rep., a 6800 SF Coventry III driveway.

To properly repair we:

Blew out the joints with a Heated Pressure Washer.The heated water will remove any poly haze from the top surface of pavers and more importantly makes it easier to remove the loose/semi-attached joint sands. (Must remove a minimum of 1.5" depth, be it regular sands or poly)

Wait for drying.

Resweep, with the same manufactered sands originally used. Mixing manufactuered sands can lead to a failure.

Retamp, this step is typically left out of most repairs. Can lead to failure, need the top interlock of sands to take place again, this also collapses any voids left from the removal as well. (We broke about 15 SF while recompacting, have replacements/use membrane)

Resweep to top off joints. Use a leaf blower to remove poly dust, a hand held blower works best, you can angle blower and not remove too much joint sands. If surface has poly dust atop, and it rains or you mist, it will give you the appearance of efflo. Looks bad on a standard paver.

Mist. As stated previously this leads to most failures, either too much or not enough. I have always begun the misting stage with a pump sprayer, very light. This will set up that top 1/8" of the sand joint. When left as is, the dry sands below will migrate/adjust under loads and the top will crumble. This light misting does allow you to get heavier with the next misting stage, garden hose on mist. I would stay at that volume untill I felt comfortable with saturation depth, must reach bottom of joint sands. Number of mists vary, job site surroundings, weather, etc. Check multiple joints throughout a job.

12 day time hours of no vehicular traffic.

[zedosix]

Good information there allied

[alliedms]

Thanks, Zedo. I would not shy away from a poly sand repair, for T&M, but would definitely tackle the smaller projects in the future. 6800SF was alot of joints.

[allhardscaping]

If you have a problem with polymeric and you need to reinstall it is important that you blow out the old sand. You can use a rotary nozzle on a pressure washer and that will clean the joints out (a heated pressure washer woill make it go faster). If the poly sand isnt like 1.5"+ then it wont hold and all the manufacturers will tell you that.

I always made sure to tell people turn off irrigation systems and do not hand water and close plantings. Even after the sand is dry looking it can still be ruine dby water, The polymers rise to the surface and either flow off or sit in the joints sometimes looking like plastic on the joints. Techniseal has a new polyemric sand that is kind of dummy proof. It will not be as effected by overwatering. I havnt tried it since I still have a couple pallets from my last truck load of sand.

[ClearValley]

I was at a local trade show and talked to the Techniseal rep and I was told their new product sets up in 90 minutes. That would be sweet.

[WoodwardsChris]

Techi Seal will be using a new version which will set up in 90 minutes. They recommend you mist three times and only work in a 200 sq ft area.

FYI...We will be running a Sealing/Cleaning seimnar with Techni Seal April 23 from 4:30-6:30. If anyone is interested, let me know and I will add you to the list. We will have refreshments available.

Chris.